From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan  2 16:32:38 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:32:38 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
Message-ID: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  The next meet is coming up, I appreciate some venue suggestions, or 
does everyone want to go back to the last pub we were at?


Lyle


From something at amias.org.uk  Sat Jan  3 10:25:18 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:25:18 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
In-Reply-To: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>
References: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1230978318.7556.2.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 16:32 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>   The next meet is coming up, I appreciate some venue suggestions, or 
> does everyone want to go back to the last pub we were at?

yep , the cornubia was lovely 

Toodle-pip
Amias


From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Mon Jan  5 11:43:54 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Mon,  5 Jan 2009 11:43:54 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
References: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>
	<1230978318.7556.2.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090105114354.18386.9554@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From andy at mentalist.co.uk  Mon Jan  5 11:50:20 2009
From: andy at mentalist.co.uk (Andy Gale)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:50:20 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
In-Reply-To: <PGM.20090105114354.18386.9554@edison.ioppublishing.com>
References: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>
	<1230978318.7556.2.camel@localhost>
	<PGM.20090105114354.18386.9554@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <a3639e6d0901050350i571f1108o2a8b0399a9399fd7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Peter Haworth
<pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:25:18 +0000, Amias Channer wrote:
>> yep , the cornubia was lovely
>
> I'm obviously biased because of its extreme proximity, but I'm happy
> going back to the Cornubia. I'd also like to go back to the Raven at
> some point, so I can try more of their pies.

The pies in the Raven are just rip off priced pies from
http://www.pieminister.co.uk/

-- 
Andy Gale
W: www.andy-gale.com

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Mon Jan  5 16:35:25 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:35:25 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
In-Reply-To: <a3639e6d0901050350i571f1108o2a8b0399a9399fd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>	<1230978318.7556.2.camel@localhost>	<PGM.20090105114354.18386.9554@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<a3639e6d0901050350i571f1108o2a8b0399a9399fd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <496236CD.6000501@cosmicperl.com>

Andy Gale wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Peter Haworth
> <pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com> wrote:
>   
>> I'd also like to go back to the Raven at
>> some point, so I can try more of their pies.
>>     
>
> The pies in the Raven are just rip off priced pies from
> http://www.pieminister.co.uk/
>   

I've contacted pieminster to see what pubs near the centre have their pies:-

"We have our own pie and mash shop in St Nicks market in BS1,
alternatively there is the River on the waterfront. Or there's Start the
bus on the Corn Street. "


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Wed Jan  7 23:13:52 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:13:52 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
Message-ID: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  I've been meaning to write a new data dumper for a while now. One of 
those this that doesn't seem that big so keeps getting put off...

Having recently purchased "Learning Perl/Tk" and "Mastering Perl/Tk" to 
realise that the later isn't a follow on book, but a replacement that 
includes everything from Learning Perl/Tk and a load more. It seems I 
have a spare book...

Putting the two together sounds to me like a quick code competition, to 
the victor a free copy of Learning Perl/Tk! Either sent to your or given 
at the next meet.

Requirements are pretty simple, just dump out a variable, following down 
the levels of anonymous storage just like Data::Dumper does. But rather 
than creating pretty dumps like:-

$var = {
    array =>
    [
        {
            key => 'value',
            array2 =>
            [
                'one', 'two', 'three'
            ]
        }
    ]
};

Creating nasty looking dumps like:-

$var->{array}->[0]->{key} = 'value';
$var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'one';
$var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'two';
$var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'three';

or

$var3->{array}[0]{key} = 'value';
$var3->{array}[0]{array2}[0] = 'one';
$var3->{array}[0]{array2}[1] = 'two';
$var3->{array}[0]{array2}[2] = 'three';


I wonder who can come up with the cleverest and quickest way of doing 
it? (or if anyone tries at all?)


Lyle


From psykx.out at googlemail.com  Thu Jan  8 18:33:41 2009
From: psykx.out at googlemail.com (max psykx)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:33:41 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <d2cea6400901081033h163521b7i3d0566202f5ed3da@mail.gmail.com>

sub dirtydump{
my ($tainted) = @_;
	if(ref($tainted) eq 'ARRAY'){
		foreach $var  (@{$tainted}){
			dirtydump(var);
		}
	}
	if(ref($tainted) eq 'HASH'){
		foreach $var  (%{$tainted}){
			dirtydump(var);
		}
	}
	print $tainted;
}

this is utterly untested and I don't have time to test it as I'm up to
my eyeballs with work atm.

Kind Regards Max

From psykx.out at googlemail.com  Thu Jan  8 18:38:00 2009
From: psykx.out at googlemail.com (max psykx)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:38:00 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <d2cea6400901081033h163521b7i3d0566202f5ed3da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<d2cea6400901081033h163521b7i3d0566202f5ed3da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2cea6400901081038v6e4f64e4l31a580fe161a2a02@mail.gmail.com>

just noticed this doesn't print the variable names, I'll fix it when I get home

Max

On 08/01/2009, max psykx <psykx.out at googlemail.com> wrote:
> sub dirtydump{
> my ($tainted) = @_;
> 	if(ref($tainted) eq 'ARRAY'){
> 		foreach $var  (@{$tainted}){
> 			dirtydump(var);
> 		}
> 	}
> 	if(ref($tainted) eq 'HASH'){
> 		foreach $var  (%{$tainted}){
> 			dirtydump(var);
> 		}
> 	}
> 	print $tainted;
> }
>
> this is utterly untested and I don't have time to test it as I'm up to
> my eyeballs with work atm.
>
> Kind Regards Max
>

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan  9 00:13:57 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:13:57 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Blogs request
Message-ID: <496696C5.3020403@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  I've put up a temp blogs page up while Amias is working on the 
aggregater. Let me know the URLs of your blogs so I can list them.
http://perl.bristolbath.org/blog/


Lyle


From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Fri Jan  9 10:33:10 2009
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:33:10 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Blogs request
In-Reply-To: <496696C5.3020403@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496696C5.3020403@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <496727e6.TvupwTIA/GdwIVQX%mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Lyle asked:
> Let me know the URLs of your blogs so I can list them.

http://www.news.software.coop/

Thanks,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

From something at amias.org.uk  Fri Jan  9 12:48:02 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:48:02 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1231505282.7478.101.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 23:13 +0000, Lyle wrote:

> Requirements are pretty simple, just dump out a variable, following down 
> the levels of anonymous storage just like Data::Dumper does. But rather 
> than creating pretty dumps like:-
8< Snip 8<
> Creating nasty looking dumps like:-
8< snip 8<

> I wonder who can come up with the cleverest and quickest way of doing 
> it? (or if anyone tries at all?)

I think the BBC might have beaten you to it with
Any::Renderer::Data::Dumper 

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan  9 17:21:54 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:21:54 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <1231505282.7478.101.camel@localhost>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<1231505282.7478.101.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <496787B2.8090204@cosmicperl.com>

Amias Channer wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 23:13 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> I wonder who can come up with the cleverest and quickest way of doing 
>> it? (or if anyone tries at all?)
>>     
>
> I think the BBC might have beaten you to it with
> Any::Renderer::Data::Dumper 
>   

Hmmm... Call me blind, but I'm failing to see how that can produce the 
one line per value that I'm after...


Lyle

From something at amias.org.uk  Fri Jan  9 17:47:09 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:47:09 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <496787B2.8090204@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<1231505282.7478.101.camel@localhost> <496787B2.8090204@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1231523229.7478.263.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 17:21 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> Hmmm... Call me blind, but I'm failing to see how that can produce the
> one line per value that I'm after...

it might be more of a job for Any::Renderer with a custom template , 
the Any::Renderer::Data::Dumper code is probably only useful in this
situation as a kind of crib sheet for extending Any::Renderer.

sorry to busy to be anything less than handwavy .....

Toodle-pip
Amias


From alex.francis at gmail.com  Sat Jan 10 22:01:47 2009
From: alex.francis at gmail.com (Alex Francis)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:01:47 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <16afc9550901101401q236e570fnfb5bae9b0c5b5aa2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> ...
> Creating nasty looking dumps like:-
>
> $var->{array}->[0]->{key} = 'value';
> $var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'one';

Might I ask what for?

It seems my colleagues are favouring JSON instead of Data::Dumper at the moment.

Alex

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 11 00:24:01 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:24:01 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <16afc9550901101401q236e570fnfb5bae9b0c5b5aa2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<16afc9550901101401q236e570fnfb5bae9b0c5b5aa2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49693C21.3010304@cosmicperl.com>

Alex Francis wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
>   
>> ...
>> Creating nasty looking dumps like:-
>>
>> $var->{array}->[0]->{key} = 'value';
>> $var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'one';
>>     
>
> Might I ask what for?
>
> It seems my colleagues are favouring JSON instead of Data::Dumper at the moment.
>   

Thought the popular thing these days was YAML? Not that I've used either 
myself...

An example of the use would be dumping out the same variable with 
variations to two separate files that are later required in.

With a normal data dumper, you'd have to require one file, rename the 
variable, require the next, then merge.

Whereas if the dump has one value per line, like in my previous example, 
simply requiring in the two dumped files will give you a single merged 
variable.

I'm trying to avoid the normal load config -> parse it into variables 
approach. For a quicker load straight into variables...


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 11 02:41:49 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:41:49 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Freebies, who wants em?
Message-ID: <49695C6D.6030200@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Been sorting through my bursting box of cables and things in the 
office. Seems I've built up a surplus of things that I need to get shot 
of. I'll give you guys first dibs before I offer to the local LUG, then 
throw what's left in the bin.

1 wireless access point (USR015450)
100Mbps 5 port switch
3 USB extenders (brings a port from the back of your PC to the front, or 
makes another cable a bit longer)
1 120mm fan grill (if you like modding)
5 UK PC power cables
2 Euro PC power cables
2 PC power cable extenders (makes power cable longer, or powers from PSU 
to monitor (if your PSU has the socket))
1 Iomega zip 250
1 BUS network cable
2 thick 92mm fans (with very short 4 pin connectors)
1 USB link cable (USD to USD with cross over)
2 phone cables (mini connectors, not BT)

That be all, first come first served!


Lyle


From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Mon Jan 12 10:57:30 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:57:30 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Freebies, who wants em?
References: <49695C6D.6030200@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090112105730.27378.9573@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Mon Jan 12 12:18:55 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:18:55 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Freebies, who wants em?
In-Reply-To: <PGM.20090112105730.27378.9573@edison.ioppublishing.com>
References: <49695C6D.6030200@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090112105730.27378.9573@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <496B352F.2070604@cosmicperl.com>

Peter Haworth wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:41:49 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> Seems I've built up a surplus of things that I need to get shot of.
>> I'll give you guys first dibs before I offer to the local LUG, then
>> throw what's left in the bin.
>>
>> 100Mbps 5 port switch
>>     
>
> I might be able to find a home for this if no-one else wants it.
>
>   
>> 3 USB extenders (brings a port from the back of your PC to the
>> front, or makes another cable a bit longer)
>>     
>
> I'll happily take these off your hands; it's very annoying having to
> sit on the floor while the PS3 controller is charging

Cool, I'll bring these along to the next meet.

Any takers on the other stuff? I'll be posting whatever is left to the 
local LUG tomorrow.


Lyle


From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Tue Jan 13 10:57:46 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:57:46 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
References: <495E41A6.2050300@cosmicperl.com>
	<1230978318.7556.2.camel@localhost>
	<PGM.20090105114354.18386.9554@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<a3639e6d0901050350i571f1108o2a8b0399a9399fd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<496236CD.6000501@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090113105746.27378.9580@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Tue Jan 13 11:42:46 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:42:46 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
Message-ID: <496C7E36.2080408@cosmicperl.com>

Peter Haworth wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:35:25 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>  
>> Andy Gale wrote:
>>    
>>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Peter Haworth
>>> <pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>> I'd also like to go back to the Raven at some point, so I can try
>>>> more of their pies.
>>>>         
>>> The pies in the Raven are just rip off priced pies from
>>> http://www.pieminister.co.uk/
>>>       
>
> I don't know about rip off prices; they didn't seem too expensive to
> me, and the one I had was very good, but I haven't tried their pies
> from anywhere else to compare.
>
>  
>> I've contacted pieminster to see what pubs near the centre have
>> their pies:-
>>
>> "We have our own pie and mash shop in St Nicks market in BS1,
>> alternatively there is the River on the waterfront. Or there's Start
>> the bus on the Corn Street. "
>>     
>
> It looks like it's either the Cornubia for the ambience, or the River
> for the pies. Since Lyle still has to update the meetings page, maybe
> he should decide :-

Ooops, already updated the meets page last night to the Cornubia...


Lyle


From something at amias.org.uk  Wed Jan 14 13:29:06 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:29:06 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Next meet 20th Jan, Venue suggestions please
In-Reply-To: <496C7E36.2080408@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496C7E36.2080408@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1231939746.12067.106.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 11:42 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> 
> Ooops, already updated the meets page last night to the Cornubia...

yay , perl  -MPieminster::VeganOption

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 15 11:30:23 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:30:23 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] YAML vs JSON Was: Code competition - let's try
	something new
Message-ID: <496F1E4F.8090101@cosmicperl.com>

Lyle wrote:
> Alex Francis wrote:
>   
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> ...
>>> Creating nasty looking dumps like:-
>>>
>>> $var->{array}->[0]->{key} = 'value';
>>> $var->{array}->[0]->{array2}->[0] = 'one';
>>>     
>>>       
>> Might I ask what for?
>>
>> It seems my colleagues are favouring JSON instead of Data::Dumper at the moment.  
>>     
>
> Thought the popular thing these days was YAML? Not that I've used either 
> myself...
>   

http://www.google.com/trends?q=yaml%2C+json

Seems YAML is only more popular in Germany.

http://ajaxian.com/archives/json-yaml-its-getting-closer-to-truth

But it seems that there isn't really any difference between the two?


Lyle


From Stewart.Smith at novate-it.co.uk  Thu Jan 15 11:38:55 2009
From: Stewart.Smith at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:38:55 -0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Perl Developer Vacancy
In-Reply-To: <496F1E4F.8090101@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496F1E4F.8090101@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <63AE6FC0BC1C7B46967A53AFE50BC97A53E267@NOVATE.NovateIT.local>

Hi All

Just a quick de-lurk from me, we have an opportunity for a permanent Perl Developer in the Bath area that might be of interest to the list. The required skills are:
Perl
Perl DBI
OO Software Development
Unix/Linux
Oracle or other leading RDBMS

Salary or ?30 - 35K plus benefits is offered.

If anyone is interested be please email daniel.james at novate-it.co.uk - alternately, if you know anyone who might be interested please forward them these details we do offer a referral fee to you if they go on to secure the position through us!!!

Cheers

Stewart Smith
Novate IT Ltd
0117 930 1900


From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Thu Jan 15 12:41:49 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:41:49 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 15 13:24:09 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:24:09 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Another freebie... Xerox Scanner
Message-ID: <496F38F9.1010404@cosmicperl.com>

Xerox 4800 flatbed scanner

Lyle


From something at amias.org.uk  Thu Jan 15 14:18:24 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:18:24 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Another freebie... Xerox Scanner
In-Reply-To: <496F38F9.1010404@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496F38F9.1010404@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1232029104.8293.12.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 13:24 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> Xerox 4800 flatbed scanner

the cold cathode lights in these can be used to make very stylish
lamps if put in the middle of a pile of cds or dvds.

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 15 14:51:21 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:51:21 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Another freebie... Xerox Scanner
In-Reply-To: <1232029104.8293.12.camel@localhost>
References: <496F38F9.1010404@cosmicperl.com>
	<1232029104.8293.12.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <496F4D69.9050503@cosmicperl.com>

Amias Channer wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 13:24 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> Xerox 4800 flatbed scanner
>>     
>
> the cold cathode lights in these can be used to make very stylish
> lamps if put in the middle of a pile of cds or dvds.
>   

Does that mean you want it?


Lyle

From something at amias.org.uk  Thu Jan 15 14:58:38 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:58:38 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Another freebie... Xerox Scanner
In-Reply-To: <496F4D69.9050503@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496F38F9.1010404@cosmicperl.com>
	<1232029104.8293.12.camel@localhost> <496F4D69.9050503@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1232031518.8293.33.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 14:51 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> Amias Channer wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 13:24 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> >   
> >> Xerox 4800 flatbed scanner
> >>     
> >
> > the cold cathode lights in these can be used to make very stylish
> > lamps if put in the middle of a pile of cds or dvds.
> >   
> 
> Does that mean you want it?

nope , ;)

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 15 23:24:22 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:24:22 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <496FC5A6.9030301@cosmicperl.com>

Peter Haworth wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:13:52 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> Requirements are pretty simple, just dump out a variable, following down 
>> the levels of anonymous storage just like Data::Dumper does. But rather 
>> than creating pretty dumps like:-
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Creating nasty looking dumps like:-
>>
>> ...
>>     
> Neither of which actually matches the first dump, which itself doesn't
> match Data::Dumper's. I've attached a quick and dirty module, which just
> parses Data::Dumper's output (I can't be arsed to reimplement the shared
> reference detection), and produces the correct output for the case above.
> It doesn't implement Data::Dumper's full API, though; just a single
> scalar argument.
>   

That looks impressive and certainly puts you in the lead. Care to give 
us a version with lots of commenting?


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 15 23:42:13 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:42:13 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
Message-ID: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>

Hi all,

I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach program.  
If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a campus visit, 
please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:

  http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html

(Please feel free to contact me off-list if you or someone you know 
would like to volunteer.)

By reading this message, you agree to allow yourself to be volunteered 
for this task by one of your fellow members.

Thanks,
Lyle


(This email was a template sent to PM groups. I just put my name on it 
cus it asked me to. Hope the next one doesn't ask me to do something 
nasty :/)

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Fri Jan 16 11:47:28 2009
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:47:28 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> I would like to have a few volunteers for our student outreach program.  
> If you know a likely candidate or have the time to do a campus visit, 
> please step forward.  Let's help make this happen:
>   http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2009/01/perl-monger-parallelism.html

I'm happy to do a campus visit, but my only contacts are at Bridgwater
College - I'll ask them if they have any Perlers.  Also, what are the
projects we're suggesting to them?

I may be a bit off-message for you, though.  I think Google spins like
crazy to deflect criticism of its business methods. It formed
the Google Foundation http://www.google.org/
putting it in illustrious company with Nestle, Shell, the Gateses and
a long list of others using
soaring profits [BBC] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6319031.stm
to buy goodwill from non-profits.

To win over sceptical hackers, it has released some of its less
profitable software as free software on Google Code.

And the "Summer of Code" scheme which buys some projects a student
worker for the summer is part of this landscape, although it also
means Google gets new data about lots of students and mentors.  My
view is that we should note they "aren't a particularly good example,
but if you can get money out of them to improve the project and the
web search tools it contains, good luck!" (from a debian-project email
http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00291.html ).

Hope that helps,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

From robin.ge at gmail.com  Fri Jan 16 12:04:07 2009
From: robin.ge at gmail.com (Robin Edwards)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:04:07 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <303603130901160404r1ee2e951k84ab8abb22f61db6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am currently doing my dissertation on the parrot virtual machine,
its compiler tool kit in particular. I would be interested in taking
part in GSoC but I will be graduating in July does that mean I am out?

Rob

From something at amias.org.uk  Fri Jan 16 12:34:11 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:34:11 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 11:47 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> 
> And the "Summer of Code" scheme which buys some projects a student
> worker for the summer is part of this landscape, although it also
> means Google gets new data about lots of students and mentors.  My
> view is that we should note they "aren't a particularly good example,
> but if you can get money out of them to improve the project and the
> web search tools it contains, good luck!" (from a debian-project email
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00291.html ).

Linking to your own posts which only link to another of your own
posts is not considered evidence in book.

As far as i have heard the GSOC thing came out of google needing some
particularly difficult advances in several open source projects 
and finding a way to help this happen without having to try to
own the people who could do it. Its seems to continue on the basis
that it helps open source projects which hinders microsoft.

I cant see how GSOC helps their recruitment , they don't do it like
anyone else as several people on this list can testify . The idea of
saving money in that process is not of great importance nor does its
seem is carbon neutrality.

Also i've seen projects sponsored by GSOC that are nothing to do with
search , mixxx and open source djing tool comes to mind.

So come on MJ what is it , what did they do to you ? 

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 13:04:07 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:04:07 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <303603130901160404r1ee2e951k84ab8abb22f61db6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
	<303603130901160404r1ee2e951k84ab8abb22f61db6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <497085C7.6080906@cosmicperl.com>

Robin Edwards wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am currently doing my dissertation on the parrot virtual machine,
> its compiler tool kit in particular. I would be interested in taking
> part in GSoC but I will be graduating in July does that mean I am out?
>   

I just go this about it:-

[Fwd: Re: [pm_groups] Fwd: [Boston.pm] can we find one student for 
GSoC    2009?]

Hi all,

Bill raises a good point here:

# from Bill Ricker
>what information do we wish to convey to the prospective students?

At this moment, no mentor org can guarantee themselves or any students a 
place in GSoC.  So, the message we want to get across is that Perl is 
still an exciting and widely used language, Google's Summer of Code is 
an awesome program, and that The Perl Foundation and Parrot Foundation 
intend to apply to be mentor organizations this year.

The details of how to apply for the program and such will likely be 
similar to last year, but the known/important points for students to 
consider initially are:

  1) it is a competitive program (limited number of slots)
  2) it occupies the entire summer (like a full-time internship)
  3) it looks great on a resume and they get a $4500 stipend
  4) all of their work happens in public
  5) proposals are due in ~March and selected in ~April
  6) work runs from ~June thru ~August
  7) finished code must be under an OSI-approved open source license

>the parallelism link just suggests providing students, but not what
>we're to sell them on!

I'm hoping that it is more a matter of making contact with the right 
students than any sort of "hard sell".  Excellent candidates will be 
the self-motivated and enthusiastic sort with passion and talent.  
Prior experience with open source is beneficial.

Experience in some sort of programming is necessary, but requisite 
language experience depends on what project they choose.  i.e. Perl 5 
and C are widely applicable, but neither is strictly required for 
contributing to perl 6, rakudo, pugs, or even parrot.  The potential 
projects range from dealing with virtual machine and language/compiler 
concepts (including garbage collection) all the way through desktop and 
web development.  The student's knowledge and interests are likely to 
determine what they choose to do -- and the great students are going to 
learn a lot of new things to get to where they want to go. 

So, the focus right now is on finding enthusiastic and talented students 
who are interested in Perl and would be a good fit for the GSoC 
program.  Once you have found one or more likely candidates, you can 
update them on details as things progress.

And finally, we don't need to be focussed exclusively on GSoC 
candidates.  If you talk to ten students about Perl, we're all better 
off for that effort.  You might find one who is a great candidate, or 
one of the students you talked to might tell their friend about it.  
You might simply find yourself a new co-worker.

And even if you find zero candidates, you still talked to students about 
Perl!

Thanks,
Eric



From paulm at paulm.com  Fri Jan 16 13:34:55 2009
From: paulm at paulm.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:34:55 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
	<1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Amias Channer <something at amias.org.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 11:47 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
>>
>> And the "Summer of Code" scheme which buys some projects a student
>> worker for the summer is part of this landscape, although it also
>> means Google gets new data about lots of students and mentors.  My
>> view is that we should note they "aren't a particularly good example,
>> but if you can get money out of them to improve the project and the
>> web search tools it contains, good luck!" (from a debian-project email
>> http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00291.html ).
>
> Linking to your own posts which only link to another of your own
> posts is not considered evidence in book.
>
> As far as i have heard the GSOC thing came out of google needing some
> particularly difficult advances in several open source projects
> and finding a way to help this happen without having to try to
> own the people who could do it. Its seems to continue on the basis
> that it helps open source projects which hinders microsoft.

Microsoft use plenty of open source, and are themselves releasing more
& more. "Hindering MS" is not a goal.

> I cant see how GSOC helps their recruitment , they don't do it like
> anyone else as several people on this list can testify . The idea of
> saving money in that process is not of great importance nor does its
> seem is carbon neutrality.
>
> Also i've seen projects sponsored by GSOC that are nothing to do with
> search , mixxx and open source djing tool comes to mind.

Google supports open source because supporting open source is good,
and open source has supported Google. It encourages young developers
to work on open source projects which helps everyone. More here:
http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_goals

http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_graduate has
some info as a guide on eligibility - looks as if you're in FTE in
April this year, you're eligible.

$4500 for a summer's hacking isn't bad going...

But congrats to MJ for the most cynical post on here so far ;-)
Reminds me of http://xkcd.com/192/

P

>
> So come on MJ what is it , what did they do to you ?
>
> Toodle-pip
> Amias
>
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm
>

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 13:44:09 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:44:09 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Useful google hack
Message-ID: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  I read of a really useful firefox hack the other day which I've been 
using an awful lot since. It's saved me a lot of time, but I can't for 
the life of me remember where I read about it... I'm sure it was a book 
review or something? :-\

Anyway, in firefox do:-
Bookmarks->Organise Bookmarks
Then click on 'Bookmarks Menu', right click on the right pane and select 
'New Bookmark'.

Call it 'CPAN search', put the location as 
'http://search.cpan.org/search?query=%s&mode=all' and most importantly 
set the keywork to 'cpan' (This is why we're adding through Organise 
Bookmarks rather than just add bookmark).

Now you can easily search cpan. Just type 'cpan MODULE' in the address bar.

You can of course use this same hack for any number of sites that have 
the search term in the query string.


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 14:05:46 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:05:46 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Comments on YAML plugin... please :)
Message-ID: <4970943A.8030905@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  When I posted to PerlMonks recently about using map on a basic data 
file (key = value) they said to use YAML encase I later want to add more 
complicated data (this is probably the 5th time PerlMonks people of told 
me to use YAML). This coupled with Alex's recommendation to use JSON, 
and finding that I could in fact make files that were both valid YAML 
and JSON, it seem time to finally give in a give it a go.
  When I looked at YAML.pm is was surprised to see it export functions 
called Dump and Load by default. I'm using this from within cgi-app and 
I really don't like the idea of those names messing with other methods. 
I decided to write a simple plugin to expand my cgi-app object with 
another object called YAML which contains the Load and Dump methods.
  I've got a fully working module but looking back over it, I'm sure 
some of you here will read it and have your head screaming "There is a 
much easier way to do that!". If you aren't familiar with cgi-app all I 
need do is return the methods that I want to become part of the main object.

Script below, I've cut out the POD, if you want it let me know.

Don't worry it's very short!

package CGI::Application::Plugin::YAML;

use strict;
use warnings;
use Carp;

use vars qw ( $VERSION @ISA @EXPORT %EXPORT_TAGS $IMPORTGROUP );

require Exporter;
@ISA = qw(Exporter);

@EXPORT = ( 'YAML' );

%EXPORT_TAGS = (
    all => [ 'YAML' ],
    std => [ 'YAML' ],
);

$VERSION = '0.03';

$IMPORTGROUP = ':std';

my $yaml;

sub import {
    $IMPORTGROUP = $_[1];
    $yaml = new CGI::Application::Plugin::YAML::guts;
    CGI::Application::Plugin::YAML->export_to_level(1, @_);
}#sub

sub YAML {
    return $yaml;
}#sub


package CGI::Application::Plugin::YAML::guts;

sub new {
    my $class = shift;
    require YAML::Any;
    my $obj = {};
    if ( $CGI::Application::Plugin::YAML::IMPORTGROUP eq ':all' ) {
        YAML->import( qw( Dump Load DumpFile LoadFile ) );
        ### Overloading imported routines as class causes problems when 
called
        sub LoadFile {
            shift; ### get rid of class
            YAML::Any::LoadFile( @_ );
        }#sub
        sub DumpFile {
            shift;
            YAML::Any::DumpFile( @_ );
        }#sub
    }#if
    else {
        YAML->import( qw( Dump Load ) );
    }#else
    sub Load {
        shift;
        YAML::Any::Load( @_ );
    }#sub
    sub Dump {
        shift;
        YAML::Any::Dump( @_ );
    }#sub
    bless( $obj, $class );
    return $obj;
}#sub


1;


Lyle


From david at cantrell.org.uk  Fri Jan 16 14:29:59 2009
From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:29:59 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Comments on YAML plugin... please :)
In-Reply-To: <4970943A.8030905@cosmicperl.com>
References: <4970943A.8030905@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <20090116142959.GA25330@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 02:05:46PM +0000, Lyle wrote:

>   When I looked at YAML.pm is was surprised to see it export functions 
> called Dump and Load by default.

Export-by-default is an incredibly bad idea.  You can prevent it thus:

  use Some::Module ();

The empty list prevents use() from running the import method.

-- 
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

There is no one true indentation style,
But if there were K&R would be Its Prophets.
Peace be upon Their Holy Beards.

From something at amias.org.uk  Fri Jan 16 15:03:26 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:03:26 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Useful google hack
In-Reply-To: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1232118206.8087.20.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 13:44 +0000, Lyle wrote:

> Now you can easily search cpan. Just type 'cpan MODULE' in the address bar.

or use one of these with the keyword set as you like and get options in
the search box as well as the address bar.
http://mycroft.mozdev.org/search-engines.html?name=cpan

Toodle-pip
Amias


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 15:14:13 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:14:13 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Useful firefox hack was: Useful google hack (DOH!)
In-Reply-To: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <4970A445.9000507@cosmicperl.com>

Got the subject wrong. Forgive me I've got a banging headache today, I'm 
making loads of mistakes which really isn't helping my code much :-(


Lyle

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Fri Jan 16 15:25:59 2009
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:25:59 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
	<1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>
	<c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>

"Paul Makepeace" <paulm at paulm.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Amias Channer <something at amias.org.uk> wrote:
> > Linking to your own posts which only link to another of your own
> > posts is not considered evidence in book.

The link was meant to show it in context, not as evidence.  It's an
opinion and unlikely to have evidence.  Sorry for any confusion.

> > As far as i have heard the GSOC thing came out of google needing some
> > particularly difficult advances in several open source projects
> > and finding a way to help this happen without having to try to
> > own the people who could do it. [...]

That's a plausible reason for Google to do it.  As long as that's
understood by everyone, we all win from it.

> Google supports open source because supporting open source is good,
> and open source has supported Google. It encourages young developers
> to work on open source projects which helps everyone. More here:
> http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_goals

Sorry, that's BS.  Like all Delaware Inc's, they're legally forbidden
from doing anything except maximise Google's share value.  They may
claim they're doing it "because supporting open source is good," but
that's only because that claim maximises Google's share value.  If
more people called it out as the BS it is, they'd stop claiming it.

Claims like that are why GSOC isn't a win for everyone.

[...]
> But congrats to MJ for the most cynical post on here so far ;-)
> Reminds me of http://xkcd.com/192/

No, when they came emailing years ago, I sent them a short rebuke.
I'd prefer to leave computing than leave the cooperative sector.

> > So come on MJ what is it , what did they do to you ?

In short, externalising their costs onto the wider web and helping
governments to repress information.

Hope that explains,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

From paulm at paulm.com  Fri Jan 16 15:32:08 2009
From: paulm at paulm.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:32:08 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>
	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
	<1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>
	<c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>
	<4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <c37577dd0901160732ub470094x3073389d76e2f3ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, MJ Ray <mjr at phonecoop.coop> wrote:
> "Paul Makepeace" <paulm at paulm.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Amias Channer <something at amias.org.uk> wrote:
>> > Linking to your own posts which only link to another of your own
>> > posts is not considered evidence in book.
>
> The link was meant to show it in context, not as evidence.  It's an
> opinion and unlikely to have evidence.  Sorry for any confusion.
>
>> > As far as i have heard the GSOC thing came out of google needing some
>> > particularly difficult advances in several open source projects
>> > and finding a way to help this happen without having to try to
>> > own the people who could do it. [...]
>
> That's a plausible reason for Google to do it.  As long as that's
> understood by everyone, we all win from it.
>
>> Google supports open source because supporting open source is good,
>> and open source has supported Google. It encourages young developers
>> to work on open source projects which helps everyone. More here:
>> http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_goals
>
> Sorry, that's BS.  Like all Delaware Inc's, they're legally forbidden
> from doing anything except maximise Google's share value.  They may

It's possible to work in the greater good AND optimize for share value.

> claim they're doing it "because supporting open source is good," but
> that's only because that claim maximises Google's share value.  If
> more people called it out as the BS it is, they'd stop claiming it.
>
> Claims like that are why GSOC isn't a win for everyone.

Who do you perceive as losing out from sponsoring students from writing code??

>
> [...]
>> But congrats to MJ for the most cynical post on here so far ;-)
>> Reminds me of http://xkcd.com/192/
>
> No, when they came emailing years ago, I sent them a short rebuke.
> I'd prefer to leave computing than leave the cooperative sector.
>
>> > So come on MJ what is it , what did they do to you ?
>
> In short, externalising their costs onto the wider web and helping
> governments to repress information.

Honestly... LOL

P

>
> Hope that explains,
> --
> MJ Ray (slef)
> Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
> worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
> (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm
>

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 15:33:56 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:33:56 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>	<1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>	<c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>
	<4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <4970A8E4.3000502@cosmicperl.com>

MJ Ray wrote:
> Sorry, that's BS.  Like all Delaware Inc's, they're legally forbidden
> from doing anything except maximise Google's share value.  They may
> claim they're doing it "because supporting open source is good," but
> that's only because that claim maximises Google's share value.  If
> more people called it out as the BS it is, they'd stop claiming it.
>   

MJ, be mindful of the list rules. Paul works for google and could quite 
easily take this language personally.

You are entitled to your opinion, but in the same way people and even 
google is entitled to theirs.


Lyle


Lyle


From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Fri Jan 16 15:56:50 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:56:50 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<496FC5A6.9030301@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090116155650.27378.9590@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 16:21:11 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:21:11 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <PGM.20090116155650.27378.9590@edison.ioppublishing.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>	<PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>	<496FC5A6.9030301@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090116155650.27378.9590@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <4970B3F7.9080103@cosmicperl.com>

Peter Haworth wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:24:22 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> That looks impressive and certainly puts you in the lead. Care to
>> give us a version with lots of commenting?
>>     
>
> I thought it was pretty straightforward, but here's a version with
> comments. I also noticed that the simple scalar case didn't need
> special treatment, so the code is actually slightly shorted this time.
>   

I haven't had chance to test yet, but you know I'll be badgering you to 
put this on CPAN :)


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 16 16:23:56 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:23:56 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] can we find one student for GSoC 2009?
In-Reply-To: <c37577dd0901160732ub470094x3073389d76e2f3ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <496FC9D5.1000105@cosmicperl.com>	<497073d0.gV43TpFsVFalzR7L%mjr@phonecoop.coop>	<1232109251.8087.18.camel@localhost>	<c37577dd0901160534l30c1a101wa0e04c211872ea44@mail.gmail.com>	<4970a707.oAyXTWCNk9kbNJlA%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
	<c37577dd0901160732ub470094x3073389d76e2f3ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4970B49C.4090701@cosmicperl.com>

Paul Makepeace wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, MJ Ray <mjr at phonecoop.coop> wrote:
>   
>> "Paul Makepeace" <paulm at paulm.com> wrote:
>>     
>> In short, externalising their costs onto the wider web and helping
>> governments to repress information.
>>     
>
> Honestly... LOL
>   

This leg of the thread is clearly going to go nasty.

So I'm using role as leader to declare this thread CLOSED.


Lyle


From dave at dave.org.uk  Sat Jan 17 10:06:12 2009
From: dave at dave.org.uk (Dave Cross)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:06:12 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Useful google hack
In-Reply-To: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49708F29.5060808@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <4971AD94.8040407@dave.org.uk>

Lyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>   I read of a really useful firefox hack the other day which I've been 
> using an awful lot since. It's saved me a lot of time, but I can't for 
> the life of me remember where I read about it... I'm sure it was a book 
> review or something? :-\
> 
> Anyway, in firefox do:-
> Bookmarks->Organise Bookmarks
> Then click on 'Bookmarks Menu', right click on the right pane and select 
> 'New Bookmark'.
> 
> Call it 'CPAN search', put the location as 
> 'http://search.cpan.org/search?query=%s&mode=all' and most importantly 
> set the keywork to 'cpan' (This is why we're adding through Organise 
> Bookmarks rather than just add bookmark).
> 
> Now you can easily search cpan. Just type 'cpan MODULE' in the address bar.
> 
> You can of course use this same hack for any number of sites that have 
> the search term in the query string.

This and many other similar packs are in chapter one of "Perl Hacks". I
highly recommend it.

Dave...

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Mon Jan 19 02:20:50 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:20:50 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] using YAML/JSON to generate database tables
Message-ID: <4973E382.9030609@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  I'm getting into this YAML/JSON thing. Having a centralised schema for 
a load of my routines should make future updates a hell of a lot easier. 
I'm thinking of also putting in the info needed to generate the database 
tables themselves. Is this normal? If so is there a standard way of 
doing it? My google-fu didn't bring up much.


Lyle


From paulm at paulm.com  Mon Jan 19 11:15:02 2009
From: paulm at paulm.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:15:02 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] using YAML/JSON to generate database tables
In-Reply-To: <4973E382.9030609@cosmicperl.com>
References: <4973E382.9030609@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <c37577dd0901190315x1e4d16cenb0af2512bd70f083@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at Jifty for some ideas on models generating schema,

http://lena.franken.de/jifty/index.html
http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Jifty-0.80408/lib/Jifty.pm
http://jifty.org/

(Idea is you code the schema in perl for perl's benefit as well as the
database's.)


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I'm getting into this YAML/JSON thing. Having a centralised schema for
> a load of my routines should make future updates a hell of a lot easier.
> I'm thinking of also putting in the info needed to generate the database
> tables themselves. Is this normal? If so is there a standard way of
> doing it? My google-fu didn't bring up much.
>
>
> Lyle
>
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm
>

From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Mon Jan 19 15:42:49 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:42:49 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<496FC5A6.9030301@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090116155650.27378.9590@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090119154249.9711.9593@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From paulm at paulm.com  Mon Jan 19 15:46:36 2009
From: paulm at paulm.com (Paul Makepeace)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:46:36 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - let's try something new
In-Reply-To: <PGM.20090119154249.9711.9593@edison.ioppublishing.com>
References: <49653730.5060109@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090115124149.27378.9588@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<496FC5A6.9030301@cosmicperl.com>
	<PGM.20090116155650.27378.9590@edison.ioppublishing.com>
	<PGM.20090119154249.9711.9593@edison.ioppublishing.com>
Message-ID: <c37577dd0901190746j74a4f400h6396435da2c27781@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Peter Haworth
<pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:56:50 +0000, Peter Haworth wrote:
> > ... the code is actually slightly shorted this time.
>
> Gah; "shorter", or possibly "shortened". Take your pick.

Was gonna say - good strategy in this turbulent bearish market.
P

>
> --
>        Peter Haworth   pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com
> Alan Burlison: I don't know wether to be impressed or appalled  ;-)
> Chip Salzenberg: I think both would be appropriate.  :-)
>                -- talking about perl's fake globs
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Tue Jan 20 14:32:04 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:32:04 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Meet reminder Tonight!
Message-ID: <4975E064.50407@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Just reminding you it's tonight:-
http://perl.bristolbath.org/meetings.html


Lyle


From alex.francis at gmail.com  Wed Jan 21 23:05:11 2009
From: alex.francis at gmail.com (Alex Francis)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:05:11 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Meet reminder Tonight!
In-Reply-To: <4975E064.50407@cosmicperl.com>
References: <4975E064.50407@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <16afc9550901211505r443f4cdbod127a6161f34f9ff@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry I couldn't make it - was hanging out with my new baby daughter
who was born at 8am yesterday :-)
Alex

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  Just reminding you it's tonight:-
> http://perl.bristolbath.org/meetings.html
>
>
> Lyle
>
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm
>

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Wed Jan 21 23:15:35 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:15:35 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Meet reminder Tonight!
In-Reply-To: <16afc9550901211505r443f4cdbod127a6161f34f9ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4975E064.50407@cosmicperl.com>
	<16afc9550901211505r443f4cdbod127a6161f34f9ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4977AC97.4030903@cosmicperl.com>

Alex Francis wrote:
> Sorry I couldn't make it - was hanging out with my new baby daughter
> who was born at 8am yesterday :-)
> Alex
>   

Congratulations! :)


Lyle

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Thu Jan 22 00:34:20 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:34:20 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] 1st Annual B&BPM (surprise) award ceremony
Message-ID: <4977BF0C.1020806@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Thanks to all that made it to the first meet of the year!

Congratulations to those who won awards for last year, and let all 
others be inspired to put more into the group for this years awards :)

Peter Haworth - Group support award
Alex Francis - Group posting award
Nigel Hamilton - Group progression award

There was a forth award, but it was only sent out today so I'll leave 
the announcement until they have received it :)

  To keep these awards fair for the future, each year group members 
efforts, will effectively be reset. I'm determined for this group not to 
become an old boys club like... Other groups... That way new talent and 
enthusiasm will always be given the chance to shine through.
  So from this day on, no previous group member efforts towards posting, 
meetings, progression, or anything else will come into consideration. 
It's the only fair way.
  Although saying that, all the effort everyone on this list has made is 
GREATLY appreciated :)

This years winners got hand engraved glass awards that I'm sure are very 
much appreciated.

Who knows what we'll have next year ;)


Lyle


From cms at beatworm.co.uk  Thu Jan 22 07:57:49 2009
From: cms at beatworm.co.uk (Colin Strickland)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:57:49 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] 1st Annual B&BPM (surprise) award ceremony
In-Reply-To: <4977BF0C.1020806@cosmicperl.com>
References: <4977BF0C.1020806@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <61C1347F-08EF-43F0-806F-E913071C69E5@beatworm.co.uk>


On 22 Jan 2009, at 00:34, Lyle wrote:

> There was a forth award

 From a perl user group ? Random ;-)

-- 
Regards,
Colin M. Strickland

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 25 02:49:22 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:49:22 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
Message-ID: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Looking more at makefiles, in your Makefile.PL or Build.PL you have 
the usual pre-requisites in PREREQ_PM. But what if your Perl module 
requires other modules Only if certain features are used.
  Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?


Lyle


From something at amias.org.uk  Sun Jan 25 12:51:28 2009
From: something at amias.org.uk (Amias Channer)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:51:28 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <1232887888.8286.16.camel@localhost>

On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 02:49 +0000, Lyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>   Looking more at makefiles, in your Makefile.PL or Build.PL you have 
> the usual pre-requisites in PREREQ_PM. But what if your Perl module 
> requires other modules Only if certain features are used.
>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?

Pretty sure i've seen people do both , i'd say that you should use you
judgement , if the possible requisites are hard to install or
unmaintained modules then no but if they are pure perl and show signs of
active development then yes. test reports are good for helping you make
this decision.

hmmmmmm.......

Would it really be all that evil to have the cpan module plugged into
the module loading system ? my thinking being that it would be very
cool if just running a perl script in an interactive shell would prompt
you to fetch and install the modules it uses. These could be stored in
a temp location or for the truely brave , systemwide .

This could also be quite a nice mechanism for building PAR's

Toodle-pip
Amias



From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Sun Jan 25 18:00:55 2009
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:00:55 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <497ca8d7.oao963HhrK8NWUi9%mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?

I think the current answer is to use Module::Build or something other
than CPAN, or to not enable them in PREREQ_PM and to have some sort of
eval around any use statements to handle unavailability gracefully.

I also think the current answers are less portable than Makefile.PL
so it's still something that needs work.

Any better solutions?  I'd love to know.

Thanks,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

From dave at dave.org.uk  Sun Jan 25 18:31:43 2009
From: dave at dave.org.uk (Dave Cross)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:31:43 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <497CB00F.4020906@dave.org.uk>

Lyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>   Looking more at makefiles, in your Makefile.PL or Build.PL you have 
> the usual pre-requisites in PREREQ_PM. But what if your Perl module 
> requires other modules Only if certain features are used.
>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?

1/ Module::Build supports a "recommends" feature alongside the
"requires" feature. The absence of a recommended module won't stop the
module from building successfully.

2/ There are a number of CPAN modules that do incredibly complex things
in either Makefile.PL or Build.PL. You can prompt the user for all sorts
of information before writing out the Makefile or Build script.

3/ If you're prompting people for information, them please provide a
method to support unattended building and installation - either by
setting configuration options or by using default values. People using
automated builds all over the world will thank you.

4/ I like the way that the Template Toolkit does it. The distribution
comes with plugins that wrap around many CPAN modules. But if a
particular module isn't installed, it doesn't make a fuss and installs
the plugin anyway. If, later on, you install the module that the plugin
needs then it just starts to work.

hth,

Dave...

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 25 18:39:17 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:39:17 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <1232887888.8286.16.camel@localhost>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
	<1232887888.8286.16.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <497CB1D5.5010608@cosmicperl.com>

Amias Channer wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 02:49 +0000, Lyle wrote:
>   
>> Hi All,
>>   Looking more at makefiles, in your Makefile.PL or Build.PL you have 
>> the usual pre-requisites in PREREQ_PM. But what if your Perl module 
>> requires other modules Only if certain features are used.
>>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
>> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
>> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?
>>     
>
> Pretty sure i've seen people do both , i'd say that you should use you
> judgement , if the possible requisites are hard to install or
> unmaintained modules then no but if they are pure perl and show signs of
> active development then yes. test reports are good for helping you make
> this decision.
>
> hmmmmmm.......
>
> Would it really be all that evil to have the cpan module plugged into
> the module loading system ? my thinking being that it would be very
> cool if just running a perl script in an interactive shell would prompt
> you to fetch and install the modules it uses. These could be stored in
> a temp location or for the truely brave , systemwide .
>   

I guess you could also parse the cpan module output into HTML and use 
that mechanism through CGI... Not sure how easy this would be to setup 
though.


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 25 18:43:43 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:43:43 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497ca8d7.oao963HhrK8NWUi9%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
	<497ca8d7.oao963HhrK8NWUi9%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <497CB2DF.8000103@cosmicperl.com>

MJ Ray wrote:
> Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
>   
>>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
>> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
>> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?
>>     
>
> I think the current answer is to use Module::Build or something other
> than CPAN, or to not enable them in PREREQ_PM and to have some sort of
> eval around any use statements to handle unavailability gracefully.
>   

I've evaled all the XS modules and created Pure Perl alternative subs to 
use if they can't be loaded.
I've checked with the Module::Build mailing list and they do have a 
'recommends' option, but it's not totally clear how it works. I'll have 
to do more testing, or just give in and be lazy, updating the docs to 
say "you might want to install these as well".

> I also think the current answers are less portable than Makefile.PL
> so it's still something that needs work.
>
> Any better solutions?  I'd love to know.
>
> Thanks,
>   

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sun Jan 25 18:49:38 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:49:38 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497CB00F.4020906@dave.org.uk>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com> <497CB00F.4020906@dave.org.uk>
Message-ID: <497CB442.5050906@cosmicperl.com>

Doh! Wish I downloaded this before I'd sent the other two, should have 
put these last 3 replies into one...

Dave Cross wrote:
> Lyle wrote:
>   
>> Hi All,
>>   Looking more at makefiles, in your Makefile.PL or Build.PL you have 
>> the usual pre-requisites in PREREQ_PM. But what if your Perl module 
>> requires other modules Only if certain features are used.
>>   Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
>> is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
>> installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?
>>     
>
> 1/ Module::Build supports a "recommends" feature alongside the
> "requires" feature. The absence of a recommended module won't stop the
> module from building successfully.
>   

I've found this and am trying it out.

> 2/ There are a number of CPAN modules that do incredibly complex things
> in either Makefile.PL or Build.PL. You can prompt the user for all sorts
> of information before writing out the Makefile or Build script.
>   

Can you give me some good examples of ones doing similar things to what 
I'm trying to achieve? Your CPAN knowledge is much better than mine :)

> 3/ If you're prompting people for information, them please provide a
> method to support unattended building and installation - either by
> setting configuration options or by using default values. People using
> automated builds all over the world will thank you.
>   

Definitely.

> 4/ I like the way that the Template Toolkit does it. The distribution
> comes with plugins that wrap around many CPAN modules. But if a
> particular module isn't installed, it doesn't make a fuss and installs
> the plugin anyway. If, later on, you install the module that the plugin
> needs then it just starts to work.
>   

I'll take a look at this.


Lyle


From david at cantrell.org.uk  Sun Jan 25 19:12:43 2009
From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:12:43 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Is there a POSREQ_PM and not just PREREQ_PM?
In-Reply-To: <497ca8d7.oao963HhrK8NWUi9%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
References: <497BD332.2010108@cosmicperl.com>
	<497ca8d7.oao963HhrK8NWUi9%mjr@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <20090125191243.GB28308@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 06:00:55PM +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> > Is there a possible requisites you can define? So that when the module 
> > is built with cpan, it pauses asking if you want the extra modules 
> > installed and defaults to no if you don't respond is 30 seconds?
> I think the current answer is to use Module::Build ...

or Module::Install.  I don't particularly like either of 'em, but M::I's
questions about optional modules are nice and predictable, so I can
automate them away using Expect and CPAN.pm distroprefs.

If you want to use ExtUtils::MakeMaker like all right-thinking people
do, then you can use its prompt() function to get user input in a nice
CPAN.pm-friendly manner (mumble mumble IO buffering mumble).  It lets
you specify a default, but not a timeout.  Do *not* just read from STDIN
in a Makefile.PL.  This will Fuck Shit Up, because both CPAN.pm and
CPANPLUS can buffer IO and your users can end up not seeing the prompt
until after they've answered the question!

Based on that user input, create a hash containing all the various
optional modules the user specified, and pass that to WriteMakefile.

-- 
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,
 hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken

From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Mon Jan 26 20:25:14 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:25:14 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] 1st Annual B&BPM (surprise) award ceremony
In-Reply-To: <4977BF0C.1020806@cosmicperl.com>
References: <4977BF0C.1020806@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <497E1C2A.20706@cosmicperl.com>

Lyle wrote:
> ...
>
> There was a forth award, but it was only sent out today so I'll leave 
> the announcement until they have received it :)
>
> ...

David Cantrell - LPM support award

Proving that LPM can be friendly :)


Lyle


From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Mon Jan 26 22:14:51 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:14:51 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - feedback please
Message-ID: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Now that the code competition is finished (well done Peter), I'd like 
a little feedback.

I like the idea of small code competitions for the group, with prizes 
for the winner...

Can you throw me some thoughts on the first one, what was good, what was 
bad, etc.

Also what prizes you think would be good/better, and what kind of code 
you'd prefer the competitions to be based on. Such as cpan modules 
patchs, tests, missing cpan modules, etc.


Lyle

From psykx.out at googlemail.com  Tue Jan 27 02:21:07 2009
From: psykx.out at googlemail.com (psykx.out)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:21:07 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - feedback please
In-Reply-To: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
References: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <497E6F93.1000806@googlemail.com>

Lyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>   Now that the code competition is finished (well done Peter), I'd like 
> a little feedback.
>
> I like the idea of small code competitions for the group, with prizes 
> for the winner...
>
> Can you throw me some thoughts on the first one, what was good, what was 
> bad, etc.
>
> Also what prizes you think would be good/better, and what kind of code 
> you'd prefer the competitions to be based on. Such as cpan modules 
> patchs, tests, missing cpan modules, etc.
>
>
> Lyle
> _______________________________________________
> BristolBathPM mailing list
> BristolBathPM at bristolbath.org
> http://mailman.bristolbath.org/mailman/listinfo/bristolbathpm
>   
We have code competitions at work, set by anybody, one a week usually on
a Friday and 'points' are given  for style and general niceness. The
person who sets the challenge is the person to judge. No prizes are
given except kudos. The subject of a code competition is normally based
on something that somebody found on the interwibble or a problem that
some can't get their head around to that end it's perfectly acceptable
to set a code challenge that you can't complete.

Max

From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Tue Jan 27 10:37:53 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:37:53 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - feedback please
References: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090127103753.12608.9612@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From alex.francis at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 13:48:09 2009
From: alex.francis at gmail.com (Alex Francis)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:48:09 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - feedback please
In-Reply-To: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
References: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <16afc9550901270548n79534fbfmf13c21c73bc8f630@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  Now that the code competition is finished (well done Peter), I'd like
> a little feedback.
>
> I like the idea of small code competitions for the group, with prizes
> for the winner...
>
> Can you throw me some thoughts on the first one, what was good, what was
> bad, etc.
>

It's good to have a little coding problem every now and then. I have
plenty of days where I do little or no actual coding, because there's
something else that's more urgent, so it's really good to have a
little Perl distraction to satisfy that part of my brain. I'm not that
interested in prizes, but the discussions of relative merits of
different solutions are where it gets interesting, useful, rewarding
etc. It's a big learning exercise too, not that often that daily work
involves squeezing every ounce of insight out of a particular problem,
more often it's "make it work and move on".

Alex

From pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com  Wed Jan 28 10:07:17 2009
From: pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com (Peter Haworth)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:07:17 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Code competition - feedback please
References: <497E35DB.4080201@cosmicperl.com>
	<16afc9550901270548n79534fbfmf13c21c73bc8f630@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PGM.20090128100717.12608.9620@edison.ioppublishing.com>

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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 30 17:43:38 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:43:38 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] FW: YAPC::EU::2009 Newsletter #3 - Pricing,
 Registration Dates, Call for Presentations, Send-A-Newbie, etc.
Message-ID: <49833C4A.9060802@cosmicperl.com>

( I stole this from a BPM post, hehe )

For those interested....


----- Start Forwarded message -----

Subject: [Conferences] YAPC::EU::2009 Newsletter #3 - Pricing,
	Registration Dates, Call for Presentations, Send-A-Newbie, etc.

Greetings, and welcome to the third YAPC::EU::2009 newsletter.

In this issue:

 - pricing and registration dates
 - call for presentations
 - the send-a-newbie program
 - more sponsors
 - the event on Social Networks
 - more details for the workshops
 - preparing the partner's program (we need some feedback)


Let's get down to it:


 - pricing and registration dates

Registration opens on February 1st.

Here are the three different rates for YAPC::EU::2009

    full-time students - 40?;
    regular rate - 75? before May 31st; 100? after May 31st;
    corporate rate - 2000? (if your mouth is open, you're one of those who
are going to pay the 75-100? rate).

The regular rate is of 75?/100?, depending on when you register. For
everything we're putting together, we feel this it's a great value. YAPC has
always been about making an inexpensive great technical event targeted at
developers who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it, and thus, 75?/100?
seems a very reasonable price, and it's in conformity with the previous
editions.

The full-time student rate is a way of making the conference more affordable
for those who don't have any income. The difference between 40? and 75?
might make the difference into getting those to attend. Lower than that, and
we feel that we'd be opening the conference to people who are not even
interested in Perl. This is a rate for people who have no source of income;
it's not meant for people who already have income but still haven't finished
their studies. It's not meant as a way for people to save money, but rather
as a way of making it possible for students to attend. (Documentation
proving the full-time student status may be required at the conference.)

The corporate rate has now been created mostly to help people in large
corporate companies attend. Believe it or not, in a lot of places it's
easier to get approval to attend a 2000? conference than a 100? one, as the
first one is looked at as something valuable, while the second one is
frowned upon with disbelief and suspicion. Also, many people in such
companies have complained that they'd like to sponsor YAPC, and so would
their bosses, but the bureaucracies to accomplish that were just too
complex. This solves two problems at once.

Now, it wouldn't be fair to have someone's employer pay 2000? for something
somebody else gets for 90? and not get anything else in return.

OTOH, it wouldn't be fair either to give those corporate attendees something
that should be available to everyone.

Thus, we came up with a corporate package that includes a free entrance to
one of the training sessions we'll be having in the two days after YAPC
(which regular attendees will still be able to get at a reasonable price),
entrance to the speakers' dinner (which we couldn't make available to
anyone, or otherwise it wouldn't be a speakers' dinner anymore; do note that
we'll still be having the regular dinner for all the attendees), and a
couple of more things.

So to sum it up:

 - the rate is 75? if you register before May 31st, and 100? if you register
after that date;
 - if you're a student with no source of income, you can attend for 40?;
 - if you have the need or the chance to, you can attend for 2000? and get
some extra perks while you're here.

As in previous years, speakers (lightning-talk speakers not included) will
not have to pay, so registration will open after the talks have been
approved, which takes to the next point.

Again, registration opens on February 1st.


 - call for presentations

The Call for Presentations opens on February 1st.

This year, instead of copy-pasting a previous Call for Presentations, we're
setting up a few new rules and guidelines, which we'd appreciate if you took
the time to read:

    - We're accepting 20min and 40min talk submissions. If you have a need
for a different time slot, however, you can always state your case on the
comments field and we'll be happy to see what we can do;
    - When submitting a talk, you're asked to select the target audience
that fits your talk; this is to both help us setting up the schedule and to
ease up the task the attendees always have of selecting which talks to
attend;
    - When submitting a talk, please type in the appropriate keywords, so
that in the future the attendees can find your talk easily (eg: perl, perl6,
oop, tdd, xml, smtp, mail, tt, mason, etc.)
    - Please take some time to properly write your abstract; the abstract is
not only the way you're trying to convince us to accept your talk, but it's
also the way you're calling attendees to see your talk; it's the text that
will be available on the website and at the conference;
    - If you have any special requirement for your talk (eg: sound system
plugged into your laptop), please write it down in the "comments" field;

That being said:

    - Submit your talk at http://yapceurope2009.org/ye2009/newtalk

    - Deadline for talk submission is April 31st, 2009

Don't leave it to the last minute, do it now. You can always go back to it
later on and change or polish the text a bit more.

Two important notes:

    - If you want to submit a talk but don't know yet whether you'll be able
to attend the conference, please, by all means, submit the talk and write on
the comments field that information on your inability to commit right now;
we'll have another deadline for talk confirmation;

    - If you're an experienced Perl programmer and would like to give a talk
but don't know on what, or if you're feeling like helping beginner
programmers, we have a list of Beginner talks we're looking to have this
year (for the Beginners' Track); drop us an email if you're interested on
giving one of these and we'll let you know what the options are; if you
already have a beginner's talk in mind, by all means, submit it.

The Call for Presentations opens on February 1st.


 - the send-a-newbie program

Edmund von der Burg realized two things:

    1 - prior to attending a YAPC, you have no clue to how important that
can be to you, and to how much knowledge you can get there and how much it
is going to improve your life;

    2 - there are very few young people at YAPCs, probably because, even
though YAPC is an inexpensive conference, you still have to pay for your
travel and lodging.

After realizing that, Edmund decided to do something about it. He checked
with several people (including us) and thus this project began:
http://www.send-a-newbie.com/

It's very simple, really. Anyone can donate (any sum of money) and anyone
(who's under 25, never been to a YAPC and with no means of doing so on
his/her own) can apply for a YAPC grant, which will cover the expenses of
going and attending.

Think about it. You've been there, haven't you? Wanting to go to a
conference for the very first time and not having enough money to do it?

    More information - http://www.send-a-newbie.com/info/about
    Donate - http://www.send-a-newbie.com/donate
    Apply - http://www.send-a-newbie.com/apply

Any amount is appreciated, and so is spreading the word, both to potential
donors and to potential grantees.


 - more sponsors

To the ranks of logicLAB, SAPO, FCUL, Active State, TAP, O'Reilly, Apress,
$foo magazine and o3 magazine, the following now also get on board:

    Best Practical

        They are the ones behind RT and SVK. Need we say more? It's
wonderful to have them on board.

    Caixa M?gica

        Caixa M?gica (literally "Magic Box") is a Portuguese Open
Source-oriented company who is responsible for the Linux distribution "Caixa
M?gica", a Portuguese distribution with considerable success on public
offices and public schools (just the fact that kids are now getting desktops
with dual-boot systems on schools is wonderful).

    The Perl Review

        The oldest Perl magazine in print is also supporting us, and its
subscribers will have probably seen our ad on its latest issue.

We're still talking to several other companies and it really looks like
we're going to have a fantastic conference.


 - the event on Social Networks

We created the YAPC::EU::2009 event on a couple of websites. Feel free to
join the event...

    ...on LinkedIn - http://events.linkedin.com/pub/27994
    ...on Upcoming - http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1483838
    ...on SlideShare - http://www.slideshare.net/event/yapceu2009


 - more details for the workshops

We noticed we hadn't defined a deadline for workshop submission nor a
notification date for workshop speakers, so we're going to do that now.

Deadline for workshop proposals - February 28th

Notification to workshop speakers - March 15th


 - preparing the partner's program (we need some feedback)

We're hard at work preparing the partner's program.

We're aiming at two days in and around Lisbon, at a cost somewhere between
100? and 200? (there will be rides and guides and all that) for adults and a
reduced price for children.

At this point, we'd like some feedback from you (feel free to send email
off-list, if you want to):

 - Are you thinking of attending the partner program? (something like "Yes,
my partner and two kids", for instance; this is just so we can get an
estimate on numbers)
 - Would you find a cost of 200? to be an excessive (or perhaps even
prohibitive) price to pay for this? (and, if so, what would be a more
appropriate price, in your opinion?)
 - Is there anything in particular you feel we should address, while
preparing this program?


That's all for this newsletter

Feel free to contact us at organizers at yapceurope2009.org for anything
conference related.

See you at the next newsletter,

the organizers

In our next newsletter:

 - other payment means (especially for companies wanting to pay for a group
of attendees)
 - lots of other stuff


-- 
Jos? Castro
<http://jose-castro.org/>

_______________________________________________
Conferences mailing list
Conferences at yapceurope.org
http://lists.yapceurope.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences


----- End forwarded message -----

Cheers,
Barbie.
-- 
Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org>
Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk>



From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Fri Jan 30 23:28:15 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:28:15 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Site update -"Pick a colour, any colour"
Message-ID: <49838D0F.6040001@cosmicperl.com>

Hi All,
  Finally updated the site to a Wiki. In the end I went for Kwiki (and 
an old one at that). A lot more limited than Twiki, but I really didn't 
like the long URL Twiki gave you, plus getting a good design in was a 
real pain.
http://perl.bristolbath.org

Choose your own colour, and if you get bored spin the onion! ;)

There isn't any version control system at the moment, so all changes are 
permanent. The Kwiki.org website has been down for ages and I've had no 
luck contacting Ingy about it. It looks like we'll be stuck on this 
version until I get my hands on a newer one.

Let me know by private email who wants a login to do edits. I think I'll 
have to setup some kind of cron job doing a backup encase edits go wrong.


Lyle


From nigel at turbo10.com  Sat Jan 31 05:47:35 2009
From: nigel at turbo10.com (Nigel Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 05:47:35 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Site update -"Pick a colour, any colour"
In-Reply-To: <49838D0F.6040001@cosmicperl.com>
References: <49838D0F.6040001@cosmicperl.com>
Message-ID: <50fec4060901302147h11c5aa2fu5dd18b76308c50d5@mail.gmail.com>

Well done Lyle.
I really like the Onion, colours and tabs.

At some point it would good to add the logo for the group - the yellow duck
smoking a cigar?
Nige
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From webmaster at cosmicperl.com  Sat Jan 31 19:08:28 2009
From: webmaster at cosmicperl.com (Lyle)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:08:28 +0000
Subject: [BristolBathPM] Site update -"Pick a colour, any colour"
In-Reply-To: <50fec4060901302147h11c5aa2fu5dd18b76308c50d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49838D0F.6040001@cosmicperl.com>
	<50fec4060901302147h11c5aa2fu5dd18b76308c50d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4984A1AC.5080902@cosmicperl.com>

Nigel Hamilton wrote:
>
> Well done Lyle. 
>
> I really like the Onion, colours and tabs.

We are planning a full screen flashing psychedelically onion as a 
gimmicky joke...

>
> At some point it would good to add the logo for the group - the yellow 
> duck smoking a cigar?

Good point, didn't think of that :)


Lyle